'Matthew 24:37-39 King James Version (KJV) 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.' I don't think it was an invisible flood...
The Quiet One
JoinedPosts by The Quiet One
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Armaggeddon may occur invisibly
by mankkeli inat the end of today's meeting, some over-righteous friends were discussing the various possibilities of armaggeddon occuring invisibly, considering the explanation given within the "parousia" domain on the invisible presence of christ in 1914. they reffered to some articles which i am presently looking through.. .
while he was sitting upon the mount of olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence [pa?rou?sia, greek] and of the conclusion of the system of things?.
"in our day, then, what is meant by the biblical expression the presence of our lord jesus christ?
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I've stopped my bible study but....
by PenelopePaige inthe lady i studied with asked if it would be okay if she still brought the magazines by.
i said of course because i do love the awake and watchtower.
well, when she came by last week, she gave me the mags and then as we stood around chit-chatting, i realized we were basically still having the study, only we were standing up instead of sitting in the living room.
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The Quiet One
Hi. Well done on having the guts to tell her you want to stop the study, but I hope you realise that you are still having one if you let her keep coming back. That 'true worship' article that you mentioned is part of a series that are used to conduct doorstep studies, without someone realising it. It's strongly encouraged that jw's use them to lead into the bible teach book. Just a suggestion, try to show her any pages that you print off from jwn or a site like jwfacts, or question her on the nonsense you've read in a recent mag, and see just how 'nice' that she is then. Do you realise that we are actually trained at the meetings in how to speak politely/respectfully to people, to smile, even befriend the person? She'll do whatever it takes to count the study, and as long as you keep her coming back, you're wasting both your time and hers..
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Even the Bible doesn't say that the world is about to end..
by The Quiet One inhere are some scriptures that show that the world isn't about to end, even according to the bible!
i noticed most of these in my own reading, but this page brings them all together.
i don't believe in the coming system of things, though.. any comments welcome.. http://www.apocatastasis.net/prophecy/prophecy-system-of-things-.html.
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The Quiet One
Soft+gentle- I recommend reading the first link that I posted as to the evidence, particularly under the Time Element heading, but here's one of the highlights: 'In Revelation 22:10, the angel of the Lord said to John, "Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand ." Once more, we have proof that the events of Revelation were about to take place in the first century. However, another element was added to this warning. The angel told John not to seal the Scroll. Why is this important? To answer that, let's look at the book of Daniel. After Daniel had received visions concerning his people (the nationof Israel), he was told, "thy peopleshall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book" (12:1). Daniel is then told how they would be rescued — byresurrection, some would be rewarded with "everlasting life" and others with "everlasting contempt" (verse 2). But then, Daniel is told something very peculiar. In verse 4, Daniel was told, "shut up the words, and sealthe book, even to the time of the end." Please note that this verse says the "time of the end", and not "the end of time". There is a huge difference between the endof time and the time of the end. Now, we must ask "Whose time of the end?" Verse 1 told us that Daniel's visions concerned the nation of Israel, not mankind in general. Next, Daniel saw two angels talking about the fulfillment of all that he had seen (verse 6). One asked the other, "How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?" The answer was, "when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished." (verse 7). But Daniel could not understand what they meant, so he asked again, "When?" The angel answered "Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end." Now that we have looked atthis passage, how does it relate to Revelation 21? Did you know that there is only one other place in the Bible where a sealed book is referred to? Revelation, chapter 5. How Daniel relates to Revelation is thatRevelation is the opening of Daniel's sealed book!! Remember,Daniel's visions were concerning the "time of the end" of Israel, and Revelation is about God's judgment on Israel. They are one and the same. The reason this has direct bearing on Revelation 21, is that Daniel was told to seal his book concerning the end "for it pertains to many days in the future " (Dan.8:26), but John was told not to seal his book "becausethe time is at hand " (Revelation 22:10). The end of Old Covenant Israel was at hand. All things written had to be fulfilled by the time Jerusalem fell in AD 70 (see Luke 21:20-22). Therefore, since Revelation is the opening of Daniel, then it must have been fulfilled by the summer of AD 70.'
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Even the Bible doesn't say that the world is about to end..
by The Quiet One inhere are some scriptures that show that the world isn't about to end, even according to the bible!
i noticed most of these in my own reading, but this page brings them all together.
i don't believe in the coming system of things, though.. any comments welcome.. http://www.apocatastasis.net/prophecy/prophecy-system-of-things-.html.
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The Quiet One
Soft+gentle said: 'For me part of recognising that they have truth is that I can show a respectful attitude to them instead of a wholely antagonistic attitude and this is where I am coming from.'-- I don't undestand what you mean by this? Probably just me.. If I have come across as antagonistic, I sincerely apologise. ALL I'm doing here is trying to present evidence that the Bible's end-time prophecies might have already been fulfilled.. With regard to jws having the truth, you might find this page interesting. http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/607-1914.php @d-- As to the dating of Revelation, there's plenty of internal evidence that it was written before 70 ce, and the little evidence I'm aware of that it was written in 96 ce can be disproven. Not being a scholar, I'm not saying that it WAS written at a particular time, but if you are open-minded enough to look at opposing evidence... http://ecclesia.org/truth/revelation.html http://www.matthewmcgee.org/7church.html
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Watchtower defiance against Hitler
by The Quiet One inwatchtower october 1, 2011 page 14 'did hitler receive letters of protest from church officials concerning the outrager perpetrated by the national socialists, or nazis?
there were some, but such letters were few and far between.
in the moscow archives, however, eberle found a file containing a number of letters sent to hitler by jehovah's witnesses..protesting against the conduct of the nazis.
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The Quiet One
Soft+gentle-- Good point, you are right that Hitler hadn't declared that the jews were to be murdered at that time (there were only plans to strip their power and deport them until the wannsee convention), but even though the killing of jews wasn't promoted , the anti-semitism in the letter can't be denied. But what can else can be expected from a religion that believes all others, including jews who don't join them, will die at armageddon?
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The Concept of "Increasing Light" Scenario
by ziddina ina re-posting of cedar's hi-jacked thread.... cedars:.
i just thought i'd share something if you don't mind.. my conviction in the legitimacy of the society was slowy eroded over a number of years simply by reading the publications and becoming increasingly frustrated at how little the interpretations of prophecy and scripture made sense, added to the complete ineptitude of senior figures in the organisation.. for me, the "glue" that kept everything roughly held together into something that can be called a "faith" was the concept of "increasing light", which as you all know is the principle employed by the society to excuse any mistakes or backtracks that are made.
they routinely flog proverbs 4:18, which as we all know has nothing to do with gradual refinements in understanding when read in context.
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The Quiet One
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/light-gets-brighter.php 'But with God there is no variableness, neither shadow of turning, and so it is with truth; any knowledge or light coming from God must be like its author. A new view of truth never can contradict a former truth. "New Light" never extinguishes older "light" but adds to it" Zion's Watch Tower 1881 February pp.3, 188' http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/superior-authorities.php 'Evil as these Gentile governments have been, they were permitted or "ordained of God" for a wise purpose. (Rom. 13:1) Studies In the Scriptures Series I - The Divine Plan of the Ages p.250 "The Superior Authorities are the Most High God Jehovah and his exalted Son Jesus Christ." This Means Everlasting Life (1950) p.197 "The Expression "superior authorities" means the political governments or authorities." Life everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God (1966) p.189'
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The Concept of "Increasing Light" Scenario
by ziddina ina re-posting of cedar's hi-jacked thread.... cedars:.
i just thought i'd share something if you don't mind.. my conviction in the legitimacy of the society was slowy eroded over a number of years simply by reading the publications and becoming increasingly frustrated at how little the interpretations of prophecy and scripture made sense, added to the complete ineptitude of senior figures in the organisation.. for me, the "glue" that kept everything roughly held together into something that can be called a "faith" was the concept of "increasing light", which as you all know is the principle employed by the society to excuse any mistakes or backtracks that are made.
they routinely flog proverbs 4:18, which as we all know has nothing to do with gradual refinements in understanding when read in context.
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Mass Apostasy- Sign of the Lords presence
by mankkeli inthis quote is from the watchtower 1980 8/1.
"are you profoundly shocked and unduly disturbed when you see or hear of a christian you know yielding to doubts, cooling off and perhaps even becoming rebellious to the point of deserting the christian congregation and trying to draw others away with him?
if so, you may be comforted in knowing that, sad as such occurrences may be, the scriptures forewarn us that they will happen.. among the various causes of apostasy, one of the foremost is unquestionably a lackoffaith through doubt.
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The Quiet One
Mankkeli --''the one who doubts to the point of becoming an apostate sets himself up as a judge. He thinks he knows better than his fellow Christians, better also than the “faithful and discreet slave,”-- Mankeli, you do realise that the 'faithful and discreet slave' are actually the ones who are setting themselves up as judges, don't you? Who is it that claims that: everyone who disagrees with them on any scriptural matter, and holds to that view, is wrong, is an enemy of God and deserves to be destroyed? 'Apostates' or the 'faithful slave class'? Watchtower 1994 July 1 p.12 "For one thing, some of the apostate literature presents falsehoods by means of "smooth talk" and "counterfeit words." (Romans 16:17, 18; 2 Peter 2:3) What would you expect from the table of demons? ... Those who have continued to feed at Satan'sspiritual table, the table of demons, will be forced to attend a literal meal, no, not as partakers, but as the main course-to their destruction!" Watchtower 1993 November 1 p.19 "True Christians share Jehovah's feelings toward such apostates; they are not curious about apostate ideas. On the contrary, they "feel a loathing" toward those who have made themselves God's enemies, but they leave it to Jehovah to execute vengeance." Watchtower 1982 April 1 p. 27 Survival or Destruction at the"Great Tribulation" Now, the Bible definitely shows that some end up in the symbolic Gehenna before the 1,000-year Judgment Day begins. Jesus told the unrepentant scribes and Pharisees that they and their Gentile proselytes were 'subjects for Gehenna' or, literally, 'sons of Gehenna.' (Matthew 23:15, 33-35; see also John 9:39-41; 15:22-24.) If even a proselyte of the Pharisees became a subject for Gehenna 'twice as much so asthemselves,' how much more so Judas Iscariot, who made a heinous deal with them to betrayGod's Son! Jesus implied this when he called Judas "the son of destruction." (John 17:12) Similarly, unrepentant apostates go, at death, not to Sheol, or Hades, but to Gehenna.''
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Even the Bible doesn't say that the world is about to end..
by The Quiet One inhere are some scriptures that show that the world isn't about to end, even according to the bible!
i noticed most of these in my own reading, but this page brings them all together.
i don't believe in the coming system of things, though.. any comments welcome.. http://www.apocatastasis.net/prophecy/prophecy-system-of-things-.html.
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The Quiet One
Soft+gentle- What truth do jw's have, specifically?
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Even the Bible doesn't say that the world is about to end..
by The Quiet One inhere are some scriptures that show that the world isn't about to end, even according to the bible!
i noticed most of these in my own reading, but this page brings them all together.
i don't believe in the coming system of things, though.. any comments welcome.. http://www.apocatastasis.net/prophecy/prophecy-system-of-things-.html.
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The Quiet One
Soft+gentle- I know where you are coming from now. From your very brief earlier post I got the impression you were a jw! As in, ''here's one scripture which vaguely fits in with todays world, we know our Bible but you clearly don't!'', that kind of a response. And few things get my back up as much as being spoken to in a condascending way.. Sorry for the misunderstanding, and thanks for replying :)